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Post by drproctor on Sept 5, 2006 19:16:13 GMT
yet u say there is no god because it is intangible I can smell Earth, touch Earth, hear to Earth, see Earth, taste Earth. Earth has a resonant frequency it is finite and measurable. Earth is tangible. Earth is a living breathing entity that supports life. Non of these things can be done with Dog, because Dog doesnt exist. There is no paradox, no question & no evidence. u say that the world we live in isnt real (a holographic universe) but u then say that God can't exsist because it is intangible (much like a hologram)
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fogs
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Post by fogs on Sept 5, 2006 19:54:07 GMT
Again you are mis-quoting me, I said many believe that reality is a hologram. A hologram is tangable; as we experiance it it must be tangable. we see it, feel it, taste it, smell it. hear it. However we do none of those with the Dog concept What you are not considering is that we can only refer to, in the 3d reality that we currently inhabit, what is evidential and or tangible and of course the Dog concept is neither. Nature/reality doesnt work with waste it is fundamentally conservative and so would have no need for a Dog, under reasonable scrutiny it becomes obviously apparent the Dog concept is a classic control mechanism. There is no need for Nature/reality to have ever created a Dog. Dog concept was created to control the lost, needy, confused & controlled to deal with what they cannot explain for themselves. Of course believers in Dog have given the concept omnipotence (very handy) so they simply adjust the goal posts every time the Dog concept is proven untenable. It doesnt work, that, because reality doesnt exist or could be a hologram that there has to be a Dog because Dog doesnt exist either. You could say the 'concept' of Dog exists and you could explain why the concept of Dog exists , however that doesnt mean that Dog actually exists
Dog doesnt exist.
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Post by drproctor on Sept 5, 2006 20:35:31 GMT
But how can u say God doesnt exsist? u state it as fact when there is no way u or any1 could possibly no this.
and after all does it reli matter whether god exsist or not? the fact is "God" gives hope to billions of people in their gr8est time of need. even if God is false, some people prefer to not know and just assume that they are not alone and no matter how desperate their situation they are in safe hands. i don't think its anyones place to take that away from them. maybe ur right, maybe there is no god or maybe there is; it doesnt matter, what matters is what "God" means not what it is.
i'd rather not know if God was real or not. not because im caught up in the dream of God but because id rather be part of mystery. some times seeking the truth isnt always the best corse of action
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fogs
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Post by fogs on Sept 5, 2006 20:39:26 GMT
It isnt for me to proove that Dog doesnt exist it is for those that want to impose the Dog concept to prove that it does exist. Ireally couldnt give a crap the Dog concept is a joke to me, although i dont like it that so many people have been brainwashed and had there self determination deliberately removed, equivelant to having your soveriegnty taken away. and it is only to control the masses.
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Maverick
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Post by Maverick on Sept 5, 2006 22:17:39 GMT
I believe sensations are only a small fraction of reality. How about dimensions that spread beyond 3? 4D? 5D? 10D? Does it stop? Will we ever evolve to percieve more than 1 dimension? If a single physical, omnipotent being named God existed in a place called Heaven, would it be in some dimension that we cannot even pretend to concieve of with our current understandings of perception and 'reality'? Hey, what if you truly set your mind free; accepted that there is no omnipotent being, and understood that the sensations you think are real are actually only holding you back from your true potential? What then? I'll tell you what! Jumping that 10m gap with the 60m drop would be like throwing a pencil across your bedroom. Think about it. Side-note. God exists just as much as you or I or this dancing banana exist: ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) . God is a man-made concept: a being of which there can be no greater. However, that means the definition of God is that it is simply a concept and not an omnipotent entity which truly "exists" and cannot physically put a hand in our lives and guide us somewhere or alter our physical state; rather, God is limited to affecting your mind by allowing you to interpret and shape yourself and your ideas how you choose to based on what you think is right. That is all.
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zetan
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Post by zetan on Sept 5, 2006 22:33:46 GMT
My brain is imploding right about........ now... ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png)
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jungle
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deep breath, focus, attempt! - whats the worst that can happen?
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Post by jungle on Sept 5, 2006 23:17:44 GMT
ok, fogs, i see your point, but u say there aint no GOD/DOG u think its a mind control thing. control the masses. we are wat we make ourselves e.t.c but that is YOUR opinion. you trying to force that onto others isnt going to work. u and me mite believe that it is a miond control technique but there are people who do need to believe in something, to believe they are not alone. think of the homeless kids... they rele dont want to think of themselves alone in the world, they need to believe in something. god is a symbol, symbols are powerful, wars have been fought for them, people can be scarred of them. but its something to give certain ppl meaning to their lives. whether u an me believe in him is our choice, but stop saying there isnt one. u may not believe it but it dont mean that no1 else does. science and religion have been at war and i think i sed earlier, science is revaling the answer to many of the things we thank "god" for... what ever people believe, we can say our opinions, but fogs, your always on about people being brainwashed and keeping an open mind... but it is u who i think has a closed mind and locked box on this subject.
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Post by drproctor on Sept 5, 2006 23:39:11 GMT
but who is to say people have been brainwashed, thousands of people choose to belive in God. this is shown in countless examples; a person who has been an aithiest for years can change their mind and more importantly civilisations creat Gods, not because they r trying to control people but simply because they have chosen to look for a higher power and they have found 1, whether its in their head or not. you assume that the only purpose for "God" is to control people, its all a big conspiracy. well may, just maybe God is a naturaly occuring thing, not an enforced "Big Brother" type character.
So aithiests pity those who belive in God? well maybe they should pity us. those who never belive in god will never experince the joy that a beliver feels. whether that joy is justified or not doesnt matter, as far as the beliver is concerned its true, no 2 ways about it. and like i said before they will never be alone. they will always have a friend close by. an athiest can never have this. in an athiest most desperate time of need u r alone and their is no 1 to help you and no 1 looking after you.
now im not one to judge whether God exists or not but i would rather live false bliss than "real" knowledge. unfortunatly this is no longer my choice as i am already to far down the track
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fogs
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Post by fogs on Sept 6, 2006 8:21:09 GMT
A Message From "God"
You are all emissaries of light. You are all vastly important to the precious balance of Mother Earth and all of Her children. You are radiant sparks of Me. You are each special in your unique individuality. You are personal examples of the power of free choice. You are Divine Beings participating in a grand experiment in love. You cannot fail Me, which means that you really cannot fail yourself nor anyone else. You cannot fail in your Divine Purpose, for you are Perfect Examples of free choice!
Your old world is falling to pieces, it seems, and this is part of the plan. A new world must be birthed through you, individually, one by one, before any mass change is seen, and this has always been the case. This is what you are witnessing, even now. Everything is of free choice, ultimately; even the seemingly random events of your lives. Nothing can happen through random acts. Nothing is a mistake, ultimately. Do you ever feel that you were abandoned by God? Why would a Loving Creator ever abondon Its own Perfect Creations? It doesn't happen. Everything that you see is eternally part of you. Everything that you create is simply another aspect of you. You are perfect in your so-called imperfections! Even God cannot abandon you, because God is everywhere and yet nowhere. Does that statement ring with Divine Truth in your hearts, or not? It is your choice. All is well!
I am always pleased to assist you, as I do so in endless ways. You are always helped, but this help is usually not what you think it is. That is because Divine Assistance operates beyond the mental realm. It is not about having anything done. Creating solutions is about listening to My Voice, which is within every particle of your reality, and then heeding My Divine Counsel, without doubt nor delay.
I ask you to take a moment now and notice the way that you feel. Are you thankful for this very moment? Are you aware that you are being watched over, right now, by God? I am here, right now, within your own thoughts. I am in that thought that you have that brings you joy. I am the Peace that you seek refuge in. You can escape to Me, trusting that I will always love and protect you. Honestly, what is there to fear, anyway? I Know that everyone who reads these words is ready for the next step in moving beyond fear. I await your willingness and courage. Again, it is your choice.
You are Beloved, Divine and Perfect. I simply ask you to be more willing to accept this for yourself, and no one else. Your life is not about the person or people that you know who may or may not be criticizing you. Your life is not about what your parents want or wanted for you. Your life is not about what others think and feel and say and do, for you are your own person, yes? No one can think FOR you and make your decisions. You are the captain of your own personal ship.
Do you want to know where your True Power rests? It rests, period! Your True Power is always at rest within you, as It is your Divine Identity. Power and Identity are really one and the same thing. Another way of explaining this to you is that your True Power and Divine Identity are to be found within the Eternal Silence of God. Your Soul is always at rest, Beloveds, which is what resting in peace is all about. It is not about death, it is about Eternal Life.
I have a promise for you today, now and forever. I promise to always assist you in your choices, no matter what they may be. If you choose to accept this Divine Promise for yourself, then you are choosing it for Me. Remember, there is NO separation whatsoever within My Infinite Reality! Whatever you choose in this moment is your gift TO the moment and FOR the moment, and who is it that experiences YOUR moments? It is YOU! I ask you to look closely at this, for herein lies the key to all of your seeking for answers. Your present-moment feelings and experiences are your reflection of your own thoughts, as every thought you have is really a choice.
You can learn to choose wisely, for you are always free to take steps beyond fear. You can choose to accept what makes you feel the best and brightest as your personal reality. You can choose My Divine Love for you, which I always offer freely. There is no judgment against what you choose, ever, in My Divine Reality, simply because My Love is free of conditions and restraints. Whatever you choose, I ask that you be easier on yourselves. Relax and be ready for a miracle.
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ef1
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Post by ef1 on Sept 6, 2006 10:30:35 GMT
not so much brainwashing, more like you were tortured and killed if you didnt belive in the church. A 300 year period of witch-hunting from the fifteenth to the eighteenth century ensured the European abandonment of the belief in magic.The Church created the elaborate concept of devil worship and used this theory to persecute thousands of men and women.The witch hunts were an eruption of orthodox Christianity's vilification of women, "the weaker vessel." What became known as witchcraft was invented by Christians and certain elements of witchcraft did represent an older pagan tradition. Witchcraft was linked and even considered to be synonymous with "divination,"- not only the art of foretelling the future, but also the discovery of knowledge by the aid of supernatural power. If there was such power available orthodox Christians insisted could only be the power of the devil leading to witches practising divination to be hunted and often burnt at the stake. Witch-hunting, although mainly associated with the Medievil times was first introduced during the period after as during the Middle Ages women were thought of as equal members of society. It wasn't until Christians wanted to make a bigger impact on England that women's power began to dwindle and witch hunting soon became an industry providing a livlihood for those involved. The Jesuit Priest Friedrich von Spree dared to speak out aganst the trial saying that "Often I have thought that the only reason we are not all wizards is due to the fact that we have not all been tortured". This sparked a slow decrease in witch-hunting until it almost disappeared, although small witch-hunts often appear throughout history, even within the last Century. Witches Hit Salem In 1692 in the town of Salem Massachusetts 24 people were killed after being tried as witches. Hundreds of others were accused as being witches or wizards but miraculously escaped the gallows. The combination of the economic conditions, teenage boredom and personal jealously led to the accounts of spiraling accusations, trials and executions that occurred between the spring and summer of 1692. The Inquisition was focused mainly on women because traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs held women completely responsible for sin and the Church found it easy to assume that women were naturally drawn to the devil, evil and heresy. Maleus Maleficarim- literally translated as the Witch Hammer- was published by Jacob Springer setting the four rules for identifying and punishing witches. This book was based on Exodus 22:18 and stated that ‘all witchcraft comes from lust to which women are insatiable.’ It also stated that women were ‘feeble-minded’, ‘intellectually like children’ ‘weak in the body, impressionable, lustful, have weak memories and are liars by nature’. It carried on to say that women were ‘chiefly addicted to Evil superstitions. However, the Maleus Maleficarim had little effect in England as it was not translated into English until 98 years after it was first written. Often women who were social outcasts; usually spinsters or widows were cast as witches. They were generally older and less attractive therefore of no use to the men who judged them. Women had very few rights at the time and no say of their own destiny but were thought of as merely property. The Spanish Inquisition The Spanish Inquisition was particularly harsh on witches or those accused of witchcraft as it was estimated that from 1481to 1517 there were 13,000 people burnt alive and another 17,000 condemned to punishments. ![](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/fernandodem/religious_intolerance.gif)
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Post by drproctor on Sept 6, 2006 11:37:44 GMT
I have no doubt that religeon is to blame fro many of the world problems but one cannot simply view religion and God as the same thing. God IS what ever the individual see's God as, we all belive in God; even fogs. he has a very negative view on God but God is still their to him but it is a bad thing. i have a very positive view on God. i don't belive it will judge me and i don't reli belive its their but i belive that God means alot to alot of people and that can't be a bad thing.
If u ask me the real "enemy" here is religeon, they r the ones that have manipulated God to meet their own means. God didnt write the bible or the qu'ran or any religeous books they were all writen by man.as was Maleus Maleficarim.
people look for someone to blaim and they find the perfect scapegoat in God (in the biblical sense) it is religeon that has turned the world against God.
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Maverick
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Post by Maverick on Sept 6, 2006 13:31:41 GMT
God IS what ever the individual see's God as, we all belive in God; even fogs. he has a very negative view on God but God is still their to him but it is a bad thing. i have a very positive view on God. i don't belive it will judge me and i don't reli belive its their but i belive that God means alot to alot of people and that can't be a bad thing. Well there you go. You've proven with your own words that God is nothing more than a concept and is, in fact, NOT a physical entity. You deserve a pat on the back. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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Post by drproctor on Sept 6, 2006 14:18:01 GMT
my point is it doesnt matter wether God is real or not. and what is to say that if God is real in our minds it doenst actualy make God real...if u see what i mean. what if the world inside our minds was more real than the world that we interact with with our senses. if u belive in God enough, if u know God exists then maybe...for You God does exist.
its hard to try and get my point across in Text alone
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ef1
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Post by ef1 on Sept 6, 2006 14:32:41 GMT
doc it sounds like your confusing the word god with the word good. to do good, to be a good person has nothing to do with god
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fogs
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Post by fogs on Sept 6, 2006 15:02:56 GMT
But how can u say God doesnt exsist? u state it as fact when there is no way u or any1 could possibly no this I dont have to proove there isnt a Dog because evidently there isnt the burden of proof is with you!!! what an utterly rediculous statement to make. Fact is Dog doesnt exist. If you think it does then proove it. . and after all does it reli matter whether god exsist or not? Not to me because evedently there is no Dog, it only matters to those who are afraid of being alone to deal with life responsibly with self determination.. the fact is "God" gives hope to billions of people in their gr8est time of need. even if God is false, some people prefer to not know and just assume that they are not alone and no matter how desperate their situation they are in safe hands. i don't think its anyones place to take that away from them. maybe ur right, maybe there is no god or maybe there is; it doesnt matter, what matters is what "God" means not what it is. More important is that these people are shown that Dog and it's varied belief systems is nothing but a control mechanism that has been hoisted on the people to control them. And that is within us all to be our own God not to give away our self determination. If you have no ultimate trust & belief in yourself you are in for a big shock when whatever time it is that you expect Dog to come along pat you on the shoulder and say "everything is alright my son, you are in safe hands". i'd rather not know if God was real or not. not because im caught up in the dream of God but because id rather be part of mystery. some times seeking the truth isnt always the best corse of action Now that says it all, Typical brainwashed response,,,,,, "I dont care if it's real or not i will believe anyway" WhoooHooo and the Moon is made of cneese.
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